[Idea of Eurocontrol on POSCON]

On 8/12/2018 at 8:31 PM, Jonas Kuster said:

Just don't aim to eliminate holdings (as the Eurocontrol system is often used to) at all! Otherwise, pilots will struggle even more to fly them properly. Some delays, either on ground or in the air is part of the fun such a networks offer, isn't it.

I could imagine, and I think this was already briefly touched by Andrew, that an expected delay for a certain flight or airport can be displayed. But the pilot should then be able to decide whether he takes into account some delay or if he wants to ammend his plan. To conclude, I think a system dealing with delay should be more informative rather than regulative. The valuable piece of information on the ATC side would be expected average delay (for push, before threshold, overall ground movements, holding), so he can inform pilots accordingly.

Ok, yeh I agree with what you are saying. :)

[Idea of Eurocontrol on POSCON]

On 8/14/2018 at 8:39 PM, oscar6662 said:

I love the idea of simulating ATC strikes hahahaha! 

Which is not the idea of this what so ever.

[Idea of Eurocontrol on POSCON]

1 minute ago, Scorpio said:

Yes George, you said it before and I agree with you. No need as a standard feature, but laid down in the rules and regulations that there CAN be delays if the need arises due to high traffic and overload for the ATC system.

That should be enough, I guess 

I guess it could be enough, but the whole point of this post was to extend on that and build a system that allowed people to collaborate and help plan an event properly with a high quality system that helped reduce delays and also allows another route if people don't feel like doing ATC or piloting at that specific time.

[Idea of Eurocontrol on POSCON]

18 hours ago, Scorpio said:

You are certainl right Andrew, we are an endangered species anyway......

But I still would rather not suppor the whole idea, because it will probably not be ncessesary,  as you seem to expect too   

Can you explain your reasoning behind the comment that it wont be necessary? This system would allow us to make accurate slot times, allow us to regulate the airspace, create restrictions in any of the airpaces to relieve controller workload and to in the end reduce delays.

[Idea of Eurocontrol on POSCON]

On 8/11/2018 at 7:08 AM, Scorpio said:

My first reaction was: Sure, let´s do this, but the more I read the more I start to think that it is hardly feasable and not even needed except for events where high traffic can be exptected. On "normal" days this would just scare me away unless I had time enough at hand and are a "points collector".....

So, at this time I would like to change my vote above, but I can´t   

Refer to my initial post, I explained that this would be more practical for events that predict a high amount of flights rather than this system to be used on a  general basis.

[Idea of Eurocontrol on POSCON]

4 hours ago, aeroniemi said:

Will this mean that European controllers are able to go "on strike" (as certain countries here seem to do regularly) and have temporary reductions in capacity published ahead of time?

I don't really understand what you mean by this. What do you mean "go on strike"? This is literally a planning tool, I think this is being stemmed to far away from the initial seed. Capacity restrictions like in the real world will apply but they aren't harsh restricitons they are practical and the point of this planning system is to be able to regulate the airspace efficiently so that we all can go through the skies with minimal delays rather.

I am struggling to see what you mean by what you said.

[Idea of Eurocontrol on POSCON]

8 minutes ago, aeroniemi said:

The best thing that could be done in the case of CTP and similar is to make it so that any pilot to "book" or rather simply state to the computer when they'd like to fly, then let it actively define slots in real time rather than saying that planes should depart at a set time defined weeks before (or at strange hours the day before) - that'd allow for much better real time and long term planning than is ever possible from a defined slot system

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree with letting the user decide the time to fly. I personally believe the way CTP works at the moment is very effective, you have a list of real world flights with their callsigns and are able to book one of them from one airport on one side of the atlantic to the other. When people start choosing the time they want to fly the realistic side to CTP starts to decrease as thats not when the real flights would depart. And I disagree with the idea that it would allow for better planning as the idea of planning should be working out an efficient flow of aircrafts with the information provided, if anything it would make it worse.

[Idea of Eurocontrol on POSCON]

1 hour ago, Jonas Kuster said:

I understand the wish and also thought about such a system already. But because traffic flows on virtual flight sim networks differ from real life traffic flows, the Eurocontrol CDM concept can't be transfered without adaptions. The main issue is the time at which the required information to introduce restrictions would be available. I expect pilots to file their flight plans earliest 1 hour before departure, a probably only shortly before they depart. This makes it impossible for any system to compute the future traffic situation in advance. Because not all related flight plans are available at that time. Therefore, any simulation of automated slots and calculated take-off times doesn't make much sense.

What can be done and also could be of help is short-term traffic number analysis. En-route controllers may be interested in the expected numbers of aircraft within the next few hours. But you have to be aware that the only measure he can take to reduce the workload, if it gets too high, is to restrict departures in his own FIR. In any case, if you introduce any kind of CDM, some pilots will have to wait. And this is probably not that popular, especially if they just want to do a short after-work flight.

I think the best one can do is support the controllers with appropriate tools to take away the cognitive load of organising traffic, so he can concentrate in controlling it. Such tools may be sequencing support (on ground: target departure sequence, check that a suitable number of planes is at the holding point, but not too many, support to plan push/taxi and departure intervals; in the air: approach sequence including speed management and wake-turbulence separation considerations) and mid- and long-term conflict detection. 

I completely agree but as I stated I don't think this system should be used on a general basis and as an example, for events that go over the atlantic like Cross the pond. And if you are familiar with cross the pond you would recognise that flightplans are finalised the day before and obviously on the day confirmed so from a planning point of view we should already have the data to be able to organise routings the night before the event which allows a team of controllers to decide on how we plan on getting all the aircrafts through the sector efficiently. Individual countries will have different requirements for their sectors, and you are correct in saying that we should work on tools to maximise sector throughput. By combining those tools with a air traffic flow control management system would ensure a enjoyable and delay-minimised (not delay-free) experience for both controllers and pilots.

[Idea of Eurocontrol on POSCON]

Hello all,

I have been thinking and want to suggest if others would like to help me back an idea of having a Eurocontrol position on POSCON. What I mean by this is not to have a position like Vatsim, controlling every square inch of europe converted into 6 callsigns controlling roughly 6 sectors, I mean to be able to have some sort of collaborative decision making system which allows skilled air traffic controllers who get mentored on this CDM system to manage the airspace above Europe and other areas in order to maintain an efficient and fast moving flow of aircrafts through the appropriate secotrs. I want to stress if this did go ahead that the position to be only used for events that take place over a large amount of airports which large amounts of aircrafts are predicted to be flying through the European airspace. I feel like this would allow the network to expand in other areas of decision making and planning rather than just controlling a CTR, APP, TWR, GND, DEL or any other positions. This idea would invite the capability to perform and give accurate slot times and also predict how an event will run. A good idea of when this could be used is for an equilivent event of 'Cross the pond'.

I hope you take the time to read this suggestion as I think it would make the network stand out from competing networks.

Kind Regards,

George Barlow

[Welcome to the British!]

So are we having a website like https://vatsim.uk and kind of mirroring them as per we have our own training system and core system which our division only manages?

[Recruiting Divisions]

United Kingdom - I would happily be interested in helping out.