Do you think the TCAS could be linked with the Autopilot in the future?

[Thibault D. (1018242)]

Hello!
Knowing that things like TCAS advisories take priority over ATC and that (probably assuming too much here) pilots fly on autopilot most of the time, would it not be of use to connect the TCAS with the autopilot to execute a resolution instantly? Would it be safer or not?
Are those systems connected already? If not, do you think it will ever happen?

Lots of questions for my first post, so I'll stick with those to start!

Thanks!

[Andrew Heath]

I think the A350 and B787 might already have this feature, not 100% sure though.

[Samuel Jutzeler]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:00 PM, Thibault D. (1018242) said:

Hello!
Knowing that things like TCAS advisories take priority over ATC and that (probably assuming too much here) pilots fly on autopilot most of the time, would it not be of use to connect the TCAS with the autopilot to execute a resolution instantly? Would it be safer or not?
Are those systems connected already? If not, do you think it will ever happen?

Lots of questions for my first post, so I'll stick with those to start!

Thanks!

a350 and a380 have it for sure 

[Bryan V.]

Hey man That is indeed a great idea, I believe this is already implemented within avaition.

Here is the site of EASA which explains it:
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2009/08/easa-certifies-new-autopilot-flight-director-tcas-mode-for-a380.html

Sincerely 

Bryan V.

[flaneur]

Hey guys,

 

found this on YT. I don't know what it's worth though:

 

[Debmalya S. (1018583)]

With due respect to what others think abt this i have something different to say, Well i dont think "the TCAS could be linked with the Autopilot in the future" . Because when RA is issued, if the autopilot system malfunctions, that would be devastating. It better to have the human brain take control of such imp things. This is absolutely my view.

[veselko (1018510)]

It's good idea, but pilots should still be teached how to fly manually.

There shuld be alternative in case AP malfunction.

I think it's better to have good pilots then good electronics(AP, FMC, CDU...).

[Thibault D. (1018242)]

This is why such questions always relate back to the debate of automation vs manual flying ability.

And i guess both options will be separate until we can safely say technology can take over what a human brain would have to do, in emergency responses, checklists, quick analysis and reaction times and much more that we cannot yet automate. But at that time, the world of pilots will not be the good world where we can still fly planes.

Back to reality, we cannot assume that TCAS should not be merged with autopilot due to a chance it could fail. Fail safes should always be built to prevent disasters (while not talking about Boeing and its MAX).

I guess its simpler to maintain both separate and let the pilot handle the advisory, but could change in the future, depending on plane configurations (more automation or maintain certain manual controls to keep attention to safety)

 

[Andrew (1017363)]

I think this is a good idea, it has already been implemented, but a good thing to implement.

[veselko (1018510)]

15 hours ago, Andrew said:

I think this is a good idea, it has already been implemented, but a good thing to implement.

 

On 8/22/2019 at 9:10 PM, Thibault D. said:

This is why such questions always relate back to the debate of automation vs manual flying ability.

And i guess both options will be separate until we can safely say technology can take over what a human brain would have to do, in emergency responses, checklists, quick analysis and reaction times and much more that we cannot yet automate. But at that time, the world of pilots will not be the good world where we can still fly planes.

Back to reality, we cannot assume that TCAS should not be merged with autopilot due to a chance it could fail. Fail safes should always be built to prevent disasters (while not talking about Boeing and its MAX).

I guess its simpler to maintain both separate and let the pilot handle the advisory, but could change in the future, depending on plane configurations (more automation or maintain certain manual controls to keep attention to safety)

 

This is starting to look like debates when I was yunger.

When I joind military, I was trained to become air traffic controller, but I also learned a lot about systems in aiplanes.

There were really boring debates about automatics in airplanes.

When first Airbus airplanes started to fly, they were highly automated, somtehing that I really dislike.

I think that in case of any problems with computers, pilot should be able to have full control of airplane(not case with newer Airbus).

Here in Croatia we had one crash in 1976 cause by ATC error. There was mid-air collision of 2 airplanes naer Vebovec.

Today we can analyse this crash and say TCAS would prevent it, but we can't know that.

If you would have even 1 problem like TCAS sending signal to autopilot to turn to new heading, you would come on collision course with other airplane, which would cause chain reacion out of control of ATC, he would just sit and observe.

[Andrew (1017363)]

46 minutes ago, veselko said:

 

This is starting to look like debates when I was yunger.

When I joind military, I was trained to become air traffic controller, but I also learned a lot about systems in aiplanes.

There were really boring debates about automatics in airplanes.

When first Airbus airplanes started to fly, they were highly automated, somtehing that I really dislike.

I think that in case of any problems with computers, pilot should be able to have full control of airplane(not case with newer Airbus).

Here in Croatia we had one crash in 1976 cause by ATC error. There was mid-air collision of 2 airplanes naer Vebovec.

Today we can analyse this crash and say TCAS would prevent it, but we can't know that.

If you would have even 1 problem like TCAS sending signal to autopilot to turn to new heading, you would come on collision course with other airplane, which would cause chain reacion out of control of ATC, he would just sit and observe.

Understood, and good point. Flying an Airbus is basically flying a computer, Boeing takes a little more of actual pilot skills. haha

[veselko (1018510)]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

Understood, and good point. Flying an Airbus is basically flying a computer, Boeing takes a little more of actual pilot skills. haha

That's exactly what I wanted to say.

That's why I think that well trained pilot+Boeing is safer then Airbus.

[Andrew (1017363)]

On 8/27/2019 at 1:22 PM, veselko said:

That's exactly what I wanted to say.

That's why I think that well trained pilot+Boeing is safer then Airbus.

I totally agree

[Rob S.]

On 8/27/2019 at 3:22 PM, veselko said:

That's exactly what I wanted to say.

That's why I think that well trained pilot+Boeing is safer then Airbus.

You don't really pilot an Airbus.  You just give it suggestions. 

[veselko (1018510)]

4 hours ago, Rob S. said:

You don't really pilot an Airbus.  You just give it suggestions. 

Yes, but during my edzcation I learned a lot about systems in different generations of airplanes, but I didn't learn to pilot airplane.

My son is pilot in Croatia Airlines. He flyes A319, usually LDZA-LDSP. He is 40 and he's going to become captain.

Also, @Andrew H. agrees with me and he's Boeing pilot.

Edited September 6, 2019 by veselko

[Kevin K. (1011597)]

I can also confirm that features is already implemented in the A320 family, but it's a feature the airlines have to pay for and not everyone has it. Our simulators though have it and it's just a look and check procedure and takeover controls, when there is something unsusal. So very simply and also very safe because pilots are aware of the situation anyways due to the "Traffic" aural alert. And I do not comment the Boeing Airbus discussion... 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Kevin K. (1011597)

[Saifudeen (1019904)]

On 6/15/2019 at 12:30 AM, Thibault D. (1018242) said:

Hello!
Knowing that things like TCAS advisories take priority over ATC and that (probably assuming too much here) pilots fly on autopilot most of the time, would it not be of use to connect the TCAS with the autopilot to execute a resolution instantly? Would it be safer or not?
Are those systems connected already? If not, do you think it will ever happen?

Lots of questions for my first post, so I'll stick with those to start!

Thanks!

To give a proper reply to the questions asked, I will stick to what I know for a Fact and avoid commenting on everything else.

 

On 6/25/2019 at 11:04 PM, flaneur said:

Hey guys,

 

found this on YT. I don't know what it's worth though:

 

The airbus family already incorporates TCAS AP/FD mode, i.e., at TCAS TA, AP will arm TCAS blue, and at TCAS RA will engage and manouver the aircraft as per TCAS advisory. and once out of RA, it will mode revert to basic AP/FD modes. 

 

 

[Saifudeen (1019904)]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:17 PM, Debmalya S. said:

With due respect to what others think abt this i have something different to say, Well i dont think "the TCAS could be linked with the Autopilot in the future" . Because when RA is issued, if the autopilot system malfunctions, that would be devastating. It better to have the human brain take control of such imp things. This is absolutely my view.

Thats why there are always two pilots in the cockpit monitoring and crosschecking every single thing the aircraft does.

[Tiago G. (1019607)]

RA is issued with a lot of time before the calculated point of impac. You are not supposed to finish your meal, but you arent supposed to rush and overcontrol the airplane either(you are not a fighter, and you probably have a lot of passangers standing up in the cabin). Remember, all the RA does is give you vertical guidance. A330/A350/B787 (i am not aware of others, but probalby many more) already have that incorporated on autoflight, and you dont need to wait for the RA to see whats gonna happen. At the TA, you will monitor the TCAS blue(armed-airbus example) and you know the system is working and ready to go. In the event of developing into a RA, the pilot monitors the AP, and if the AP does not function as expected, the pilot take over control and follows the vertical guidance. No risk involved or time lost.