Jonas K. (1013467) Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 4 hours ago, georgebarlow said: This system would allow us to make accurate slot times, allow us to regulate the airspace, create restrictions in any of the airpaces to relieve controller workload and to in the end reduce delays. Just don't aim to eliminate holdings (as the Eurocontrol system is often used to) at all! Otherwise, pilots will struggle even more to fly them properly. Some delays, either on ground or in the air is part of the fun such a networks offer, isn't it. I could imagine, and I think this was already briefly touched by Andrew, that an expected delay for a certain flight or airport can be displayed. But the pilot should then be able to decide whether he takes into account some delay or if he wants to ammend his plan. To conclude, I think a system dealing with delay should be more informative rather than regulative. The valuable piece of information on the ATC side would be expected average delay (for push, before threshold, overall ground movements, holding), so he can inform pilots accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osc B. (1012502) Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I love the idea of simulating ATC strikes hahahaha! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George B. Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 On 8/14/2018 at 8:39 PM, oscar6662 said: I love the idea of simulating ATC strikes hahahaha! Which is not the idea of this what so ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George B. Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 On 8/12/2018 at 8:31 PM, Jonas Kuster said: Just don't aim to eliminate holdings (as the Eurocontrol system is often used to) at all! Otherwise, pilots will struggle even more to fly them properly. Some delays, either on ground or in the air is part of the fun such a networks offer, isn't it. I could imagine, and I think this was already briefly touched by Andrew, that an expected delay for a certain flight or airport can be displayed. But the pilot should then be able to decide whether he takes into account some delay or if he wants to ammend his plan. To conclude, I think a system dealing with delay should be more informative rather than regulative. The valuable piece of information on the ATC side would be expected average delay (for push, before threshold, overall ground movements, holding), so he can inform pilots accordingly. Ok, yeh I agree with what you are saying. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Network Directors Andrew Heath Posted August 17, 2018 Network Directors Share Posted August 17, 2018 Question for the VATSIM and IVAO people. On those networks, in Europe, how are TSAT, TOBT, and CTOT times simulated, if at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burak T. (1011944) Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Andrew said: Question for the VATSIM and IVAO people. On those networks, in Europe, how are TSAT, TOBT, and CTOT times simulated, if at all? Only ETD and TTOT which is not really cared about by everyone. Im talking for IVAO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas K. (1013467) Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 No such times are simulated on VATSIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Network Directors Andrew Heath Posted August 17, 2018 Network Directors Share Posted August 17, 2018 @Jonas Kuster Any idea how we might able to calculate TSAT? I imagine it requires a TON of historical data to work, such as the average time to push and start from stand xx, taxi to runway xx, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas K. (1013467) Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 TSAT time is just calculated backwards from the CTOT with a fixed time depending on departure runway and actual parking positon of the aircraft. So it would need to be defined as a bunch of parameters (taxi time from any (group of) parking position(s) to any runway). Additionally, the system would need to be able to detect the actual parking position (or a specified region of groups of parking positions having which are assigned the same taxi times). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burak T. (1011944) Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 By the way for the idea, if we are going to implement eurocontrol decision making system to the POSCON, we should let the divisions decide on if they want to join into eurocontrol authority or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Network Directors Andrew Heath Posted August 18, 2018 Network Directors Share Posted August 18, 2018 @buraktiftikci Why would that be a decision for the Division? Shouldn't it be based on if they are part of Eurocontrol in the real world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burak T. (1011944) Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Andrew said: @buraktiftikci Why would that be a decision for the Division? Shouldn't it be based on if they are part of Eurocontrol in the real world? Yes it should, but my point here is are we sure that we want a huge sector controlling all of the Europe ? Also main problem in VATSIM for Europe division, divisions are not really working like divisions 3-5 supervisors of European Division decides on everything and it causes conflict. In this topic we talked about conflicts and how to decrease them. This idea may cause conflicts if it is not organized well. In IVAO they dont have superior authority over division such as Eurocontrol so that stuff works as its supposed to be (still not convenient as I want). So if we implement this idea to POSCON its pros and cons have to be analyzed. Yes this idea can be implemented to POSCON but please not as it is in VATSIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Network Directors Andrew Heath Posted August 18, 2018 Network Directors Share Posted August 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, buraktiftikci said: are we sure that we want a huge sector controlling all of the Europe ? You misunderstand the concept of Eurocontrol, this is not how it work works in the real world. In the real world, Eurocontrol is a central authority that controls traffic management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burak T. (1011944) Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Andrew said: You misunderstand the concept of Eurocontrol, this is not how it work works in the real world. In the real world, Eurocontrol is a central authority that controls traffic management. I thought it will be like how it is in VATSIM. So real aviators will make it better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas K. (1013467) Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) @buraktiftikci There is no such concept on VATSIM currently. Be careful to not mistake a traffic management concept (what we are talking about here and which is discussed to be somehow introduced to POSCON, but could also be a POSCON-wide approach) for VATEUD (the hierarchic superior management level above local vACCs in VATSIM) or EuroControl vACC (a special vACC within VATSIM providing upper area control in Europe's FIRs in case no local CTR station is online). Edited August 18, 2018 by Jonas Kuster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burak T. (1011944) Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jonas Kuster said: @buraktiftikci There is no such concept on VATSIM currently. Be careful to not mistake a traffic management concept (what we are talking about here and which is discussed to be somehow introduced to POSCON, but could also be a POSCON-wide approach) for VATEUD (the hierarchic superior management level above local vACCs in VATSIM) or EuroControl vACC (a special vACC within VATSIM providing upper area control in Europe's FIRs in case no local CTR station is online). Yes yes, thanks for the explanation again, I found out what is exactly suggested here after a little search. It was my misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeroniemi Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 I'd certainly argue that on VATSIM local vACCs in the EUD sector are given too much autonomy, at least from my perspective as local staff. It makes running the show with few people really hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veselko (1018510) Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 This is actually great idea. First, you could have big control sectors(like VARSIM) for upper airspace. Also, at the beginning, there won't be really heavy traffic, so this center could also cover from ground. Then as POSCON develops, there will be more and more traffic, then this center will control only upper airspace. Second, Eurocontrol in real life validates flight planes, this is not that relevant to POSCON, because again there isn't a lot of airplanes flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veselko (1018510) Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 On 8/18/2018 at 6:41 PM, Andrew H. said: You misunderstand the concept of Eurocontrol, this is not how it work works in the real world. In the real world, Eurocontrol is a central authority that controls traffic management. True, but if we want something similar to VATSIM Eurocontrol, then it would work like ATC in upper airspace. That would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Wilkinson (1015218) Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Hello @Andrew Heath I see this is a old thread but I am reading about a points system. What would these “points” get you if you were to collect them many thanks Callum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Network Directors Andrew Heath Posted March 27, 2020 Network Directors Share Posted March 27, 2020 @Callum Wilkinson Check this link out https://forums.poscon.net/docs/faq/#6 Your answer should be there PS You may need to scroll up just a tad to see the question/answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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